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TOPIC: Player funded industries

Player funded industries 8 months 2 weeks ago #6383

Hey all,
I've noticed a "new" scheme (new for me), that works on desert: one player would build a lot of industries around a railstation somewhere in the opposite map corner from it's factory-type. Although this is legit, I feel it steals away the _traditional way_ of playing the game, e.g. make due with whatever resources you can find on the map.
I realize it can be tricky to pull this scheme (considering it costs a bit to fund those industries, say lumber mills) - but, nonetheless, it feels like "cheating" - it's like a "money-bomb" ... if get enough initial funds and prepare your long-rail line, once you fully load it with trains it's a matter of minutes to finish a game.

I see no point in trying to "compete" with someone that will *artificially* build the best money-paying route.

What are your thought on this?
Thanks.
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Player funded industries 8 months 2 weeks ago #6385

yes sirlucas, known strategy on CV Desert maps (our regulars now are servers #4, #5 and #6), mostly because Wood on Desert pays awesomely well and Lumber mills are fair cheap to fund. About a week ago pax payment was cut to half, because was the winner start, before starting Lumber's spamming.

Please note: this Wood strategy on games that NOT Company Value, I won't mind. But, on CV goal servers, this is a tricky matter, even if all companies can use it! That's why our current CV Desert CV goal servers have slightly differences on settings, as I'll explain below.

But all share the detail of a funded Lumber mill reserves the area around to don't "steal" (seems fair to me), and that because a Lumber Mill is considered by OpenTTD as a secondary industry! Just to see how players interact when it's allowed to build only 1 industry of same type or several per town, the above mentioned servers have exactly this slight little difference.

So, on another try to balance Desert CV's, that leaves us this 2 options, that I'll try to explain the pros and cons on them:
A - Allow only 1 Lumber Mill per town: In my opinion will give advantage to the richest company, by placing it and, with reserved area around other companies couldn't get there.
B - Allow multiple similar industries per town, but raise the costs of building a Lumber Mill (requires basecosts.grf). At least to level Wood (with funding) and other available cargoes on map.

Personally, I'm tempted for option B, something already tested on server #9 (because of FIRS Hotels and Ports). Objective it's exactly the same: prevent the funding of the cheap and "overpowered" industries, keeping it still possible but with prices that players need to think if it's worth xD

Anyway, this is my idea, and to "potentially" be applied on the mentioned CV servers but, I'm open to suggestions ^^

Thanks in advance and, must important, enjoy the games :)
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Player funded industries 8 months 2 weeks ago #6389

My comments:
- one lumber mill per town limitation is already set on #4 and #5,
- no limitation on #6.

Yes, it is "money-bomb" on #6.
No, it is not a matter of minutes to finish a game on #4 and #5 - try to beat best times first :) And you'll see that lot of building is required anyway.

BTW: I frequently play on #4, #5 and just once/twice a year on #6 :) Personally I would not change anything, but... if the community really needs it - do it!
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starting from TT in 1994 to find home at BTPro in 2015... nice journey :-)

Player funded industries 8 months 2 weeks ago #6390

I didn't realise that some servers CV/CB server had their own specifications :) - when I said "money-bomb" I surely was on #6.
Anyway, ST2 suggestion might be the solution (cost increase).
I was thinking at setting a minimum build distance between them (2-3, 5? squares) - that would make harvesting a tad more difficult (instead of having a lot of them around a single railstation).

Thanks for the feedback guys!
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Player funded industries 8 months 2 weeks ago #6394

oh well, why not make it live ^^

So, here it is what happened:
- Servers #4 and #5 remain with same settings; (or until I have a dream about them xD)
- Because server #6 has a small goal, therefore a small map size, balance towns and industries were the tricky part, so:
* Number and size of towns were kept - even with pax payment cut to half, still gives a steady income;
* Multiple similar industries per town setting was kept - balance the space Towns use and industries... and what players will use with tracks;
* Previous point will still allow fund Lumber Mills close to each other, but are more expensive now; (Wood is the power, right?!)
* The Sum of the changes above needed a ScoreMultiplier raise too, done!; (lets see how it goes, since will make it a bit harder ^^)

About sirlucas suggestion:

I was thinking at setting a minimum build distance between them (2-3, 5? squares)

The idea is good. It stumbles on the industry shapes, not all are square. And, same when funding, only the top right corner is logged. It would be easy if only Vanilla industries used, shapes aren't that different. Got into similar issues when trying to enforce rule 9, specially with airports (actually with all station types, needs to check station type, his size and how was built, after adding number of tiles on X/Y, check the tiles around). Spoken seems easy, code side was a Hail Mary xD.

Well, main idea isn't to make games harder - it is to make them where there isn't a way overpowered, compared to other options. Despite most of the times it leads to harder games... therefore the ScoreMultiplier compensation ^^

Feel free to play the "modified" server #6 and, as you noticed, suggestions are always welcome :)
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