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TOPIC: FIRS refit combinations chart or something alike.

FIRS refit combinations chart or something alike. 4 months 1 week ago #6485

Hi all!
Im no so good on FIRS as wanted, and waste many hours with failed gameplanes on #9. Thats becouse wagon type not strightly works as written on buying vehikle menu. As example, "tank" didnt refit on alcohol (but CAN BE refited) after transportation petroleum/chemicals.
On last game i tryed scheme *ENSP/FMSP<>metal *, but train just stay on platform without loading. Order was : GO on stationname (REFIT TO METAL) or train take delivered supplies when order was: TRANSFER AND TAKE CARGO with REFIT to METAL.
So, mayby it for realistic? Type of wagon have an unchangeble equippment set?
If its true - can we make a full chart/scheme workable refit combinations? Like "Metal <> Building Materials" (its workable combination).
Or this hidden properties part of game learning and acts is own players secrets, which are advantage on achieving the goal?
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FIRS refit combinations chart or something alike. 4 months 1 week ago #6486

hello :)
I don't think it's possible todo such chart/scheme on an easy way, at least. A combination of newgrf's; Industry set and Vehicle set; with some specific settings on each newgrf (on both industry and vehicle sets), creates an unique chart/scheme.

Example, server #9 uses this list of newgrf's:
Squid Ate FISH r1687
CHIPS Station Set 1.6.1
OpenGFX Trees 0.8.0
Reduced Passenger Payment v1.0 (no page)
BaseCosts Mod 5.0
OpenGFX+ Trains 0.3.0
eGRVTS v2.0 - r188
PURR Universal Rainbow Rails 0.0.4
FIRS Industry Replacement Set 3.0.5

Technically it's possible to create one for the current configuration on server #9, that could get outdated with the change on a setting inside a Vehicle or Indistry newgrf. Only FIRS3 has 5 different Economies.

Another example, server #32:
Squid Ate FISH r1687
Iron Horse iron-horse 1.9.1
Reduced Passenger Payment v1.0 (no page)
Road Hog 1.3.0
FIRS Industry Replacement Set 3.0.5

FIRS3 is there, but charts of server #9 wouldn't apply, because vehicle sets are different (trains and RV's).

So, lets complicate a bit more, server #97:
Squid Ate FISH r1687
NUTS Unrealistic Train Set 0.7.9
YETI Extended Towns and Industries 0.1.6
Road Hog 1.3.0

Well, a bunch of new charts would popup from here!
At this point, we would have already an entire Book made of charts, and there's way more combinations. If you feel with the energy and time to dissect and create charts of some popular combinations, I think many players would appreciate ^^

Anyway, what I recommend is: Visit the Vehicle set(s) newgrf page(s), trains, RV's, planes and ships, and see their compatibality and possible settings (example: refit on station and not only at depot). Ofc, that will need the visit on Industry set(s) newgrf page(s) to see what cargos are in use.
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FIRS refit combinations chart or something alike. 4 months 1 week ago #6487

Hello, I'm kinda unsure if I understand your problem correctly, but I really think I had a small issue with cargo reffiting in order list as well, solved it by using timetables.

So basically this is what I did, this is like your basic line, get oil, put oil into refinery.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Next thing you want to do is to make a truck station and one RV with the cargo you want, send it there, send it to depot and sell, what you just did would be creating demand for the cargo in the station, therefore when the train unloads oil, the station gets petroleum in this case.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


The last thing you should do is open up order list, then in the corner you have the timetable button, in there you can see how long the train stays to unload, mine took 5 days, most trains on #9 probably take 5 days to unload, so what I would do is change the time to 6 days, just to be sure that the train stays and checks for the cargo you want it refitted to.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


As I said, I'm not really sure if you have the same problem as I did, but I do hope that this could be of some use to you.
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FIRS refit combinations chart or something alike. 4 months 1 week ago #6489

hello. Thanks appriciate for large answers!

A combination of newgrf's; Industry set and Vehicle set; with some specific settings on each newgrf (on both industry and vehicle sets), creates an unique chart/scheme.

This one is what i was afraid of xD
Well, there's nothing to do, except to investigate ownself, but atm have no time even for game. I will keep it on mind and when time appear with lazy level down i will create this scheme for #9. It needs only (xD) 2 stations close with all possible FIRS resourses and manually check train refit capabilities. Oh-oh. I think it needest thing, couse we need to send full trains on both ends.

I'm not really sure if you have the same problem as I did, but I do hope that this could be of some use to you.

Ye. I do the same with little RV before first taking away train. But never use time table, maybe with water ships on 25k desert CB once.
I just mean sheme for available refit chains. It might looks like:
REFIT to cargo X >>>>> REFIT to cargo Y >>>> REFIT to cargo Z
for example, legal scheme
REFIT to wood >>>> REFIT to timber
This circular scheme i used successfully on big diagonal #9 map
or this famous
REFIT to metal >>>> REFIT to building materials
Thiis one is good for money income (but not the best, highest money income gives supplies and goods,
if I'm not mistaken)

But when i tried chain (on big diagonal)
Engineering supplies/Farm supplies >>>> Metal
This one didnt want to work ((
For both cargo we use a flatbed wagon. Train was deliver supplies and after didnt want to take metal. When i made order **full load with refit to metal** train stupidly stay on platform. Sure, station was full of metal for taking away. And when i made order **go on station and refit to metal** train unload supplies and happily leave the platform without any trying to load. Flatbed wagons did not change form (look) visually. Some of them deliver farm supplies, some of them deliver engineering, becouse order for load was **full load with refit to available cargo**. And after deliver supplies wagons did ignore command **refit to metal**.
The same was with ptroleum fuels/chemicals >>>> alcohol. I had big diagonal with oil refinery on one corner and mashine shop, ammonia plant and brewery on opposite corner. Train did not want to take alcohol after bring oil refinery products.

Sure. It looks like real life. Maybe we can get available combinations for refitable wagons, all of them.
I think, **refit to chemicals >>> refit to milk** better then train just transport only chemicals on one side. Milk transporting chip, but not free on charge. It was for example. And i dont know workable this combination or not. So, i was hope, the available combinations chart exist. But not. It doesnt exist. So, is a little (xD) task to create this chart for #9 server (for biginning).

At this point, we would have already an entire Book made of charts, and there's way more combinations

Lets make this Book. I will start the near future.

And one question about topic replay form. I have a troubles with using arrow keys on keyboard. When use aroow page fully stops and stupidly not respond. Its normal?
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FIRS refit combinations chart or something alike. 4 months 6 days ago #6491

Well, i did it.
I was manually investigate all types of refitable wagons on server #9 and show results now.
For simpliest exposition: ""designated types of cargo for this type of wagon, what we can see on buying vehicles menu"" will call simple "cargo", becouse i will talk about 1 type of wagon one-by-one.
And " refit" will mean "looped refit to cargo at two ends, REFIT to A > REFIT to B > REFIT to A > REFIT to B etc."

Refrigerator wagon. It refits all possible combinations of cargo. Good one.
Piece goods wagon. It refits all possible combination too. When refited on goods accommodates 64 (!) crates against flatbed 37 crates.
Tank wagon. Refits only oil and it refinery products.
Flatbed wagon. Refits all cargo combinations besides ENSP, FMSP and goods. Sure, ENSP<>FMSP refit possible.
For visualization:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

Bulk wagon. It the most difficult type.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]



I hope this research will be useful for players in developing a game plan on server #9.
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Last Edit: by r5.

FIRS refit combinations chart or something alike. 3 months 2 weeks ago #6503

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