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TOPIC: Black and white admin decision

Black and white admin decision 1 year 11 months ago #5443

You do need to understand that any (head)admin, in any game, will always have the last word. You can call that a powertrip, i'd just call it order, as it should be. Without us admins, there would be no servers, so show a little bit of respect please!

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Last Edit: by Hawky.

Black and white admin decision 1 year 11 months ago #5444

@Hawky

Oh but I do understand that an admin will always have the last say in game to keep order. They are like a cop in the real world, you respect what they say and follow their orders since they have the last word. Admins are needed to keep order amongst players and cops are needed to keep order amongst citizens. (No I absolutely do not want to hook into actualities in the US on cops, the metaphore is just very fitting).

Cops however have rules to follow. They can't just do anything to anyone. Cops amongst themselves need order. This sends a uniform message to everyone that these are the rules to follow or these may be the consequences. Naturally there is some playroom where a cop may choose to give a warning rather than a fine, but an upper limit is rather firmly set.

In this case however there appears no such order amongst the cops of the servers, the admins. You stated some rules/guidelines that were normal to follow hawky, a fine beginning of rules for admins to abide by. But when someone clearly does not in the slightest follow those rules/guidelines “his last word counts”. So it appears that admins either are almighty, not bound by any rules but their own morality, or have very very loose guidelines. Both could lead to mixed signals and certainly do not bring order to the admins.

As for the showing respect, I said multiple times I respect the free time put into this. I realize that without an admin there would be no servers and everything. The only thing I said in the last post was that maybe if he received signals from multiple people that he was being too harsh (or power trippy as it was called in the other thread, not necessarily by me) he should reflect upon his own actions in order to improve his admining. I see and mean no disrespect in what I said.

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Black and white admin decision 1 year 11 months ago #5445

WARNING: adult language below!! Directly and without mercy!!

I usually don't have the time neither confortable on english language to make (or try) brain washing texts. But I'll try now to enter that field and make some quotes too... are quite fancy and appears that TurboTukker loves it.
And if you got some balls, you would directly complain of my action, directly, without the need of starting your post (the first, yeah ^^) with a mighty huge text and saying after that "I’d rather not make this too personal on here". I became exactly that because you made suspicions among entire admin team (for the community to read) and, since was my action, I step forward (when I could) to say that was ME and don't let your "poison post" go further! I guess you knew I would to that, you know I have the guts to take responsabilities of my actions ^^

So, let the quotings start:

They are like a cop in the real world, you respect what they say and follow their orders since they have the last word. Admins are needed to keep order amongst players and cops are needed to keep order amongst citizens.

We all love the realism on OpenTTD :P

(No I absolutely do not want to hook into actualities in the US on cops, the metaphore is just very fitting).

Very sad metaphore indeed, as you said "No idea where this statement came from, I’ll ignore it for now." It's totally unrelated! Real life and games should NEVER mix... If you're mature enough... you know it. But consider that as an assumption from me!

Cops however have rules to follow. They can't just do anything to anyone. Cops amongst themselves need order. This sends a uniform message to everyone that these are the rules to follow or these may be the consequences. Naturally there is some playroom where a cop may choose to give a warning rather than a fine, but an upper limit is rather firmly set.

Well, I guess you're a Cop and/or an Admin somewhere to know how things work! Right?!

In this case however there appears no such order amongst the cops of the servers, the admins. You stated some rules/guidelines that were normal to follow hawky, a fine beginning of rules for admins to abide by.

Yes, admins follow some rules/guidelines, surprisingly are the same as the players, and can be checked here . Would help if TurboTukker had read it earlier?! YES! But registration on the forum was only to complain! I can understand that... low level (person, personality or gamer - still didn't catch whitch)!

But when someone clearly does not in the slightest follow those rules/guidelines “his last word counts”.

Talking about the rules on the link above?

So it appears that admins either are almighty, not bound by any rules but their own morality, or have very very loose guidelines. Both could lead to mixed signals and certainly do not bring order to the admins.

This is where TurboTukker don't understand that admins (and even players using BTPro client) can see each company actions. So, YES, each admin action is taken among the morality of what HE SEE, to keep games fair to all players and companies in the game.

As for the showing respect, I said multiple times I respect the free time put into this. I realize that without an admin there would be no servers and everything.

Thank you for the community but "The only one happily deleting stuff here is that buggered smug admin" didn't help alot, and neither the couple admin calls you made after - I guess as a revenge to other company players - that wasn't really a break of server rules but helped to give some players suggestions on how to keep things correct.

The only thing I said in the last post was that maybe if he received signals from multiple people that he was being too harsh (or power trippy as it was called in the other thread, not necessarily by me) he should reflect upon his own actions in order to improve his admining. I see and mean no disrespect in what I said.

It's usual rulebreakers complain when an admin takes some action! Harsh or not, they always complain! Is there any other complaints unless rulebreakers?!
You can say I'm harsh, "power trippy" or whatever name you came out but I ALWAYS help players that need it... and sometimes just to clear doubts if their stations are legal or not! It's always better ask, that break server rules! Some players that read this will recognize the words! And TurboTukker would too!!

@TurboTukker: Probably I should simply ignore your initial post (on my mind, I'm clean on my decision), but since you had no guts/personality to point me as the "black and white admin" that took a "wrong" decision (as you tried to say), and even tried to create disruptencies among admin team!

Edit: Sorry people, I won't make same mistake again with players not respecting communities :S
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Last Edit: by ST2.

Black and white admin decision 1 year 11 months ago #5446

Dear ST2,
You’re right the quotes are indeed quite fancy and I do like using them for clarity.
I don’t see what not directly calling you out in the first post has to do with “having some balls”. I noticed the negative post directed at you earlier in the forum and figured it wouldn’t be useful to pin this on you directly. Furthermore I was then still under the, in hindsight naïve, impression that maybe you just made a mistake that you then didn’t want to come back on so felt no need to call you out directly.

Then you sort of attempt to downtalk the metaphore with saying openTTD isn’t real, games and real life should never mix and questioning my maturity. The metaphore was meant as part of an organizational advice if you will for the admins of the server. It has nothing to do with the reailty of openTTD, my maturity or mixing real life with games. It’s about having a good system for admining a server.

One doesn’t need to be a cop or admin to know how that works, it’s not rocket science. I could say I’m an admin in another place here, but I’m rather certain you wouldn’t believe this anyhow so that is most likely rather fruitless.

You then state that admins follow the same rules as players and link towards the rules for players. Those are the rules that the admins enforce upon the players. The rules that I was talking about are the rules for the admins the follow. When can you kick someone, when to reset a company and when to ban someone? Hawke put up some good guidelines in an earlier post, but clearly those are his personal guidelines. So in short the admins enforce the rules you link on other players, but have no rules to follow themselves. They can do whatever they deem fitting themselves leading to very different punishments and treatments. It might be a good plan to make rules for the admins themselves to follow, to have some uniformity and order.

I’m then called a low level person, personality or gamer. Yeah thanks for that, very fitting situation there.

You then greedily bring up the one offensive thing I said after this. Calling you a buggered smug admin. In my opinion not hardly even an insult. And for clarity for those reading I called ST2 this well after he had reset my company so this comment did not weigh into the decision. I chatted for some time asking why he had reset the company and expecting he made a mistake. But when he gleefully told me he always resets rulebreakers and he was in his right I called him a buggered smug admin. Sue me.

Then you state that only rulebreakers complain. That is exactly the black and white thinking that leads to the title of this post. In case you hadn’t noticed, I did not intend to break any rules. I play nicely and just wish to have a fun time. I did not willingly break a rule. There is a whole difference between me and someone who actively and constantly breaks the rules, misbehaves and what not. I did not and never did that. I made a mistake. You however think in black and white, someone is a rulebreaker or a nice player.

Further comes the statement you ALWAYS help players that need it. By that you mean the non rulebreakers I assume. The people who never made a mistake so far and did nothing wrong. You didn’t help me though even though you could’ve. You saw me actively building, lock my company and I’m sure I would’ve asked what’s up. You could’ve then explained the problem and this whole thread would never exist. Or delete the line and place a sign there stating the fault I made and this whole thread would never exist. You would’ve kept me a happy player and taught me something, preventing me from making the same mistake another time. Instead you chose to view me as a rulebreaker and throw me on the black side of your black and white and reset the company. And apparently it’s your choice which of the solutions to pick since you have no rules to follow, you only have rules to impose upon people. And most likely with another admin I would’ve had a different treatment. A truly clear signal from the admin team like that!

Then some quotes, they are fancy after all:

@TurboTukker: Probably I should simply ignore your initial post (on my mind, I'm clean on my decision), but since you had no guts/personality to point me as the "black and white admin" that took a "wrong" decision (as you tried to say), and even tried to create disruptencies among admin team!

Ignore the initial post, yes that is an option. Would’ve really shown the worth of this forum and how serious you take your players. Furthermore I didn’t create disruptancies amongst the admin team, the lack of rules and lack of uniformity in the admin team created that, I may have brought it to light which is only a good thing if dealt with properly.

Edit: Sorry people, I won't make same mistake again with players not respecting communities

Another easy comment to make, saying I don’t respect communities. I’m sure everyone who properly reads and understands my post will think otherwise.

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